Gig Soap

Time to clean up my music business with some gig soap.

Today,

we've got my good friend, Nick Nave, on with us. Very excited to have you on here, Nick. Man, thanks for joining.

Glad to be here. I mean, this is fun. I love I've been enjoying watching some podcasts and of musicians actually learning and learning about all this stuff. And then we you know, you and I talk weekly, and it's kind of a podcast anyway, you know, with a few extra people. So

We just don't let the rest of world hear it.

That's right. That's right. But still, you know, it's it's it's good. I'm it's a conversation, and I like to talk so that it should be fun.

Right. I I figured this one was gonna

be Hit

me up and let me go. This'll be super easy. Yeah. All you.

That's right.

So just briefly, though, let's give the people that don't know kind of a history of of a short history of, you know, what's your connection to music, how involved you are in music and the things that you've done, and what you what you do now. And, you know, you're a full time musician now, and and, well, I wanna talk a little bit about how you got to that point. But maybe just a brief history here.

Yeah. So I have, really, I've been making my living as a musician, my entire adult life. A lot of that in the worship ministry world. So as a worship pastor, worship director, and that was for, you know, that was basically full time for about, oh, I mean, thirty years, something like that, twenty eight years. And I I haven't been doing that since last December.

But all that to say, that's been a part of my journey, that I've I've been a part of how I've, you know, made my living in music. But, you know, I've been around music my entire life. And in college is when I played in bands in high school playing keyboard and singing and choir and all that stuff. Then in college is when I picked up the guitar, started playing in bands in college, and that just kept on going. And that and a lot of really original bands, there was actually when I think about it, there was, like, maybe five different band names, something like that.

Some of the same people in each of the bands. All kind of pop rock broadly was the kind of music, but a lot of original. All original, really. And then that's morphed now at this phase of my career doing a lot of solo acoustic covers with some of my original songs mixed in, but making my living playing that kind of music, solo acoustic covers. Also, duo with my wife, also a trio and a band with some other that expands out friends.

So big menu of options you can get when you book me. And so that's been and completely full time contractor. You know, I actually have an LLC. So this is I'm a solopreneurentrepreneurmusician, and I absolutely love it. It is by far the best fit of anything for me that I've ever done.

I like being my own boss. I like being I like making my own decisions. I like promoting selling my my music to the to people that wanna buy it. I like representing myself, I guess that's the way you would say it. Yeah.

So that's been super fun. Love that. And all throughout this, by the way, I've worked with you, Chad, for years as my agent and also a friend and also coach and lots of those different kind of relationships that have just been very fruitful and such a such a treasure really. Super excited to be on here with you. So

Yeah, man. Well and I mean, a lot of lot of people will consider what we do risky. Yeah. Because they just they don't they don't understand it. They don't understand the business side.

But you, I mean, you obviously just by looking at your background, you're not living in a shack, you know, off a truce. Right? You're Yes. You're actually doing alright. You know?

In fact, you're doing very well. Yes. And so I know you've applied some principles to make that happen. Yeah. For the before that, let's talk a little bit because we started talking really a lot during COVID.

Mhmm. You know, when could we start we started meeting. It was just you and I in the beginning. What's turned into this mastermind was just you and I.

That's right.

And we were preparing for what was to come. Do you do you remember some of the things you did that prep for, you know, how to launch where you're at now out of coming out of COVID?

Well, I will say one thing that I did approach wise was I if, if 2020 shut a lot of people down, I'm not saying it didn't, it it, like, activated me. So I didn't I didn't shut anything down. I actually saw opportunity. This is a way that you know, this is a way to see the world. It's certainly the way I

see the world.

But I saw it as opportunity. So so I I actually got super aggressive and was that's when I really started booking a lot was during that time, which I maybe sounds weird to people watching this or counterintuitive or maybe based on their experiences that didn't seem like that was even happening. But I never saw anything slow down

Mhmm.

Really ever. In fact, I saw it speed up for me personally because there were pockets of places to play. There were places getting a lot of stimulus money, I'm just to be frank, from the government, and they're ready to spend it on things like like live music. And a lot of that has just continued on from that from that time slot. So the the the breaking of all the systems that were that happened right at that very moment allowed me to jump into places that maybe wouldn't have been open otherwise because people had their networks and they had their gigs and they had their they did their things and they did it this way and nobody Mhmm.

Nobody changed anything. This was this was really that is actually when you think about it, that's actually the reason why this has worked for me in this season was that jumping in at that at that kind of pregnant moment.

Yeah. I mean, makes me think when you hear, like, the the super wise investors out there that always talk about, you know, the time to invest is when the market's down.

Right.

You know? And that's when you double down on your career was then. You know?

Yeah. And as I think back, there there's a lot of, there were a lot of outdoor gigs. I mean Mhmm. So I this wasn't this wasn't, like, go and do, you know, write breathe in people's faces or something like nonstop. I was they just was it was just, like, a lot of opportunity in Kansas City.

A lot of outdoor gigs because there are a lot of places that could only or would only feel comfortable having outdoor things. Think of specifically at one place in Overland Park that since has closed. But, man, this is that's he hired me twice a week, basically. Not very much money, but really, like, easy a a gig that I could just work my chops and work up songs. There was Mhmm.

The expectation was we need to have something to get people to sit outside. That's really what it was.

Right.

And so I got that gig because I was willing to do it, and that chain that even that one gig really changed my life on the solo acoustic thing. So as an example.

Well and and you also mentioned mindset in the be very very beginning of this. You know? What's one thing that I mean, I know it was a huge thing for me to focus on, and nothing got better in my life till I focused on that. And I've got to witness an incredible shift in your your situation too as well. Not that you had a bad mindset when you got.

It wasn't that. It was just maybe talk a little bit about what you've done to take it to the next level just with that.

Yeah. I mean, I I there's a there's a relentlessness that I have inside of me that is you know, I would say in an organization, it can be kind of abrasive, but on a but as a solopreneur type of person, it works very well. And, you know, I there's the word that has been really resonating for me recently is the word sharpen, which is this is just sharpening the the approach sharpening anything and everything that can be sharpened. So and I I attribute a lot of that to you. I would I don't know that you said that word, but this is you know, there's a lot of things that don't matter.

If x y z people are getting x y z gigs and they post about it on social media, that is not what I'm competing against. I'm competing against myself, the the best the most productive version of myself, the most regulated version of myself is a way one way you could say it. That's that's what I'm that's what I'm competing against. So there's a lot of that's really been, I think, the best way, the best one thing that I've been having. Because the music is one thing.

I like music. I'm good at it. I've learned to get good at it through coaching and through just doing it a lot, a lot of reps. But it's all the other stuff. Creativity, art, music are emotional emotionally charged things.

They tend to draw emotionally charged people, and which of which I'm one. So getting getting that regulated and and focused and sharpened right towards what the actual goal is. And and the goal is to make the most money possible playing music. So the job itself, music playing, that's fun. That's not working.

It's it's like all the other stuff is working and getting yourself disciplined to do all that. So

So what are some of the things that you've done to sharpen? I mean, what are sort of tools or whatever whatever you can connect that to?

Yeah. You know, I think relationships, stewarding relationships Mhmm. Instead of so when I was younger, maybe the bands I was in would have been more like, we're gonna and this is actually a really good approach, so don't hear this, especially for younger people, but we're gonna give you what what you need. Like, we, the band, are gonna give you the songs and that attitude and branding that you need. You know, we're gonna make a thing that nobody's ever made before and it's gonna blow you away.

That's that was the attitude back in the day, which is a good attitude to start with. And now it's like a it's like a completely inverse thing. Not that I'm I I don't play songs I don't like. I'm just saying it is everything's a relationship. So the the the bar owners or restaurant owners, the winery owners, I wear I play a lot of country clubs.

Those managers and owners and the members, all of those things are stewarding those has been the key to success, without a doubt. And it has unlocked opportunities I would have never thought possible in a place like Kansas City, which is to be busier than I can even be. So demand has outweighed supply, basically, in the current place. Relationships turning those things into relationships has been good. Specifically, sharpening my branding and music choice, playlist.

You know, that stuff you that stuff is through reps. That's not through magic. It's like, play this song because I think it's cool. Play it five times. Nobody likes it.

Dump it. Like, don't play it again. It's not I don't care if I mean, that might be my favorite song of all time. If you don't wanna if you're not responding and it's not getting it's not getting anything happening, it that's a sharpening. It just cut that sucker off, man.

What how have you sharpened your ability to develop relationships?

I think slowing down, ironically, I'm I'm I have an aggressive personality, but slowing down, using gratitude. So I mean, I literally thank every single person that ever hires me with a follow-up text or email or phone call every single time. And it's these are not long and I use chat GPT to come up with, like, five pages of gratitude. It's just it's just a a thing. That's one super simple way.

I promote the places I use social media, which is free, to promote the places that I play. I use I we talk about this a lot on our calls, but I just keep it positive and and broadly I keep the communication broadly positive at all times. So when somebody hires me, they're not gonna get me the next day on Facebook ranting and raving about something. Maybe something didn't go well, but I would I just don't do that. I just I I might do it to you or to my wife.

I don't do that. So some of that kind of stuff. And so the relationships have actually become the fun part of it. The relationships with all some of the clubs and and places we play. Man, I just love all these people.

I love the staff, and we we they become I'm not saying like family, but they become treasured coworkers even though I'm just a contract musician. You know what I mean?

Yeah. One of the things I've noticed every time that you are consistently doing every time you do a show is you have you're you're edifying the people that need to that that you should edify while you're there. You're edifying the bar staff. You're edifying edifying anybody that's got anything to do with what's going on. You at some point in that night, you're gonna say something edifying and complimenting them and for who they are, what they're doing.

And it's it's always and you do it in a very authentic way, which is which is, I think, a big part of it too. It's not like you're it's not like you're brown dozing. Right? It doesn't ever come out like that. You wanna talk about that a little bit?

Or

Yeah. I mean and and I so I think and you've mentioned this before, but I think my my years as a worship leader, leading worship, meaning standing in front of a large congregation and leading a band and using words to really to bridge from one section to another, from music to preaching, you know, broadly speaking, stuff like that. Music to announcements to preaching, even doing the announcements. I think that's where this has all been birthed from. But outside of that realm, I use the same connecting principles to to connect between songs or between moments.

And, you know, I want people to come to to have a great experience and enjoy the music. And the best way I know how to do that is to edify and lift up and encourage and practice gratitude and just connecting dots kind of within during the gig and within the gig and during the breaks. And actually, really specifically, Chad, one of the things we used to talk about right when we started this our Zoom group was taking your breaks. So if you're a musician, you're taking a break or two per per gig, taking your breaks not and sometimes it's stressful. You gotta go disappear for a minute.

So that's not every time. But getting out and meeting people and chatting and connecting with the bartender, you could kinda call it sales 101, but really it's just putting yourself out there, letting people know you see them and you're hearing what they have to say to you. You know, I have a microphone in front of my face for three hours. I can say whatever I want, and they're they're forced to listen to me. But but when you can give that back, the listening to them.

Mhmm. And I've learned that from you tremendously. They just it's it's just a whole different ballgame and the stress just goes away. And if you play a few muff notes, it's not a big deal. And, you know, it just it's just completely different.

And people really connect and feel like they're your brother, sister, friend kind of thing. And it is a discipline. So even the most extroverted person has to work that muscle. It's not like, I mean, it's a discipline. And these are some of the same you see some of the same people.

You see, you know, you work relationships that last for years and years and years. So it is, you know, that's those are some

of the

things I do.

Yeah. I mean and you you mentioned just a little bit ago, you know, the things that you don't do too. I mean, I know we've talked about this a lot. What do you what you know, people that rant musicians that rant on social media, I mean, especially a man, especially in the politics area.

Mhmm.

You know? I mean, how many times have we seen that? And I just it just it pains me because I know what it's doing to their career. Mhmm. You know?

It doesn't it doesn't even matter what side they're on. The just the fact that they are picking a side and going all in on that side is just destroys, you know, a big part of their market market.

Yeah. Well, I mean and even I even think I mean, unless you're literally writing political jingles basically.

Like like if you're Green Day.

I mean, other than that, not much of it probably helps. I mean, people can feel a passion and feel so passionate that they just can't help themselves. So that's fine. But as it relates to getting gigs or or playing music or connecting with a broader group of people, I don't think it helps very much, and it probably hurts. You could say, hey, I'm gonna you see a lot of this in branding stuff.

Get really specific. Get really provocative. You know, you you can see that. And that is a way to really get your niche. You know?

Let's say I was into politics, conservative politics, and I go hardcore with everything I post is all of a sudden just all this and I'm using X to do it primarily. That is a way to build a brand. It's not a wrong way to build a brand. But this kind of world that we live in, I'm a local musician in Kansas City. Maybe slightly regional, but mostly just local.

That's not really a political job. So using free advertising to hammer people on politics, to me, doesn't benefit my political views nor my business views or business output. And it can and even aside from politics, it can just be a grouchy spirit that complains about everything. And I don't I mean, that stuff just gets old really quick in terms of, you know, I have my own world and my own friends and family, so I can say what I want there. But this is I'm just talking about using social media and Yeah.

Mail list to build a to build a business, you know, is music and entertainment, people feel free to speak about politics and feel free to offer their advice. So that is a thing that musicians do. You see it all the time. And you can understand why people go, that's what that guy does, so I'm gonna do that too. You know?

This spring scene goes and rants in London, so I'm gonna take my time and do that exact thing because he's my hero. You can see why they would do it, but I'm not sure on a local to regional level that that that it helps very much.

Right.

You know?

Yeah. I mean, if you've made all the money in the world, you have a little more freedom to Right. Yeah. Make those calls. The but I think what what you're talking about and what you've done, like, specifically within your your coastal, you know, your coastal what say it again.

Coastal country?

Well, I yeah. I've been I've been working this kind of muscle on coastal laid back coastal rock and country. Yep. This is borrowing from the Kenny Chesney

Right.

Jimmy Buffett playbook a little bit. It's not really all the same songs, but kind of that that niche just came about pretty naturally. It's really who we are as people, so we went there.

Yeah. Because, yeah, I mean, your vacations all involve water. Yeah. Everyone that I know you go to is there's water through your table Rockwards, Florida, or something. You know?

Yeah. So it's it was a natural thing, but it was also very though you've taken your time, it was a deliberate move for you. It wasn't a move that you just kinda said, I'm gonna throw this out there and do this. It was it's actually fairly deliberate. Correctly?

Is that correct?

Oh, yeah. And Yeah. Deliberate in a way that getting we've talked a lot about this too. Getting a a hook, not a gimmick, but a but a something for people to put a hook on. If you're like, I just play every song ever written, what do you wanna hear?

That's maybe not a great hook. But if you say, I play laid back coastal rock and country, well, what's that? Oh, well, it's kind of music for the beach, music for the lake, music for the fire pit. Oh, really? That's interesting.

Tell me more. Which we've talked about. You're drawing them in to this hook, which the hook is true, but I don't live on a lake and I don't live at the beach. So but the but the branding and the hook has been it was specific to find a way to delineate because there's a lot of people that play solo acoustic gigs. And as a aside, I mean, I found somebody else's set list at a winery the other day, some other band.

I don't even know who's it was. And it's like every song is the same as the songs I play. So that some of the a lot of the songs are we all play a lot of the same songs is my point. So getting hook to some degree can really help with that. And I think it's helped me a lot.

Even internally, it's helped a lot To have to be a a different to just have a slightly different perspective has has helped me a lot. And it's you do it you start doing these gigs that are kind of outdoor country club gigs, then you start kinda going you kinda tie in that you love being outdoors and that you think it's good for people to be outdoors. You kinda you you just you know what I'm saying? It just evolves and grows without you going. I am a coastal rock and country musician.

You know, I start right now, and that's what I do from now on. I I didn't do that. It just morphed, and then you just keep sharpening it.

Yeah. You you know, you also mentioned I think this would be powerful to talk about a little bit more is is building connections with your audience so that they have an experience or a mo use the word moment. Mhmm. You know? I think I mean, when we when we finally realize that our whole job is creating moments for people, then the job actually gets easier.

So what have you done to to make you know, to to move into that or lean into that?

Yeah. Well, so I'll think of one I'll think of one really just example where I just morphed or I just latched on to something that was already happening. This is and I'm I'll say two days ago, we did a Father's Day event and at a winery, Boardmount Winery, and they had the event was already powerful. I mean, Father's Day can be emotional, you know, a charge day. There's lots of people out with their dads and out celebrating already at a place that were the moments.

I mean, the whole thing was a moment. You know, whatever note we even whatever songs we ever even played, the whole thing was a moment. So that's that's one thing you can do is just be a part of things you're proud to be a part of. You know? If you we trend family friendly.

We trend positive. So that helps leaning into all of that helps the moments to be made anyway by not bringing my positive energy to a really dark bar at three in the morning, which you have to do that sometimes as a musician. But

First starting out.

Yeah. Yeah. And then specifically creating, taking songs and tying them together, tying them together with stories. Some of this is a little scripted, but bringing that kind of energy instead of just ripping songs just one after another and not saying a word, bringing out bringing humanity in in between most songs and and into a lot of what you're doing. And that that stuff is does not have to be hokey.

It can be very powerful even if you kind of say some of the same lines over and over again. I mean, at different venues, not in the same show. That stuff's been helpful. And and, you know, taking requests can make moments. I mean, this yesterday or two days ago, Father's Day, a guy was there with his fiancee meeting some other friends for the first time.

They came from out of town, and he requested a song or two that she loved, like his fiance. Know, I didn't really one of them I really didn't know, but I really invented a chord progression for him. I kinda knew, like, sort of the line. But my point is, I gave it my try and made his moment with his fiance and his friends and family made it really a totally powerful moment for them. You could see it on their faces.

So that's me doing something that not everybody wants to do that because I did kind of fall.

It's vulnerable for sure. Yes.

The song was Bad Mamma Jamma, by the way.

Which

is not really in my usual repertoire. But nevertheless, I figured it out.

So yeah,

that is one way. And moments, you got to also have an eye an eye and a heart for moments, too. So that's another thing is getting good enough at your craft. We've talked about this so much that this is a second nature. So your so your songs, you know, your my regular set list is pretty much second nature.

I add and subtract here and there, a lot of it is second nature. So I can use my brain is all available to see these moments and help make them a little bit, help lean into them because the music because I'm practiced at my music, and it's not that hard to play the songs anymore.

Yeah. Well and, you know, we won't get into numbers here, but I know that I've I've witnessed you doubling, then tripling, then quadrupling your rate. Mhmm. You know? And my my belief is the more value you create, the more people are willing to pay for it.

And I think that's what you've witnessed, isn't it?

Yes. You know, there's a there's funny stuff about that because really the the base rate for musicians I was reading something that was, like, union musicians in Kansas City in, like I I might be get botching this, but, like, in, like, the forties or something were, like, making the same, like, base rate that they make now in Kansas City. Not they're not union anymore, but but literally, like so, like, a lot of the the base rate has not increased at all, like the entry level pay for a musician. But that being said, then there's a lot of variations on top of that as you do different kinds of events, corporate and private weddings, etcetera. And you do have to price.

We I learned this from you. You have to price high enough to get told no, you know, and be okay with that. That's a business principle. That's not a I'm not saying I'm more valuable than another musician per se. I'm saying I'm bringing high value.

I do value what I bring. It's worth this for you to have me at your event. There's confidence, not an arrogance.

Right.

And then you leave it on the table, and you lose gigs. I have lost some gigs over the years because I am expensive, so to speak, in some contexts. But but overall but overall, I'm not I haven't lost anything. I've gained a lot more Yeah.

Over

through using that strategy. And also, if you can price yourself high, then you train clients to pay a lot for music. Not a lot. To pay, like, livable wages.

Give it value.

Yes. And then all the other musicians can lean into that too. It really does bring up the overall pricing in your market, which is so helpful because if everyone's like, I'll just play for whatever you give me Yeah. That that you can't make a living out of it. It's completely a hobby for everyone if you cannot make a good make good money on it.

Yeah. I know I've shared this with you, but, yeah, there was a gig I lost one time because I was about half of what the guy thought we should be charging. You know? I I quoted him a rate.

He's like

And, I mean, and and the call up to that point was I like, I have this is in the bag. Yeah. Yeah. This guy is very excited. He's he's all in.

And then I gave him the price, and I I could hear the color drain out of his face. He's like, oh, I thought you would have been twice that. And then, like, the call just ended.

Ain't that crazy? Well so that's what we're presuming that every single person booking us, that they're going for bargain basement.

Yeah.

You know, no matter what. We're I'm always that's what I always think is, oh, man. I better not say too high because they won't hire me. And the bottom line is I've had that happen to me too. I've had people say yes to an amount and almost laugh like I just got you so good because I would have paid you 3 times what you quoted me.

Yeah. Is really that's like the exact the exact vibe of these conversations. And so I just we we have talked about this, but you just get this kind of ceiling that, you know, is kind of the ceiling for most types of gigs.

Mhmm.

And you just kind of bump bump up on that ceiling with your with your quotes.

Yeah. Self imposed ceiling.

Yeah. Sure. But but, you know, you just kinda bump up, though, and then you bump and then, you know, so far that's worked out well.

You mean you mean you're saying you're that you every time you hit it, you kinda just kinda push against it?

You try yeah. And you try to push it. Yeah. You just bump it. You know?

Mhmm. Bump that $50.50 more bucks or whatever, you know, or maybe, you know, you couldn't I couldn't right now just double my rates. But there is a number that I would like to get to for every appearance,

you know,

not not some regular gigs, bars, etcetera. They their budgets, they just that's not ever gonna happen. So you do have to kinda accept that kind of structure

Yeah.

To keep your kind of public gigs out there. But for all the other ones, private, corporate, weddings, house parties, you know, really, you have really, it's just it's about trying to bump that up. That's money they're probably gonna spend on something else anyway.

Right.

You know, catering or whatever. I mean, it's it's that's just the way it is. It's the event world is a people are ready to spend money on the on that kind stuff.

And, well and, I mean, if we're talking about event planners, a lot of times, they're given a budget. And if they have to spend that or they're gonna have their budget decrease next year if it's a, like, a reoccurring event. Yeah. So if you come in too low Mhmm. For the entertainment side of things, they're like, well, shoot.

I'm not gonna spend the budget because they're paid on commission a lot of times. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you're dipping in their commission by underpricing.

I know. Ain't that crazy? Yeah. And and still yet, you can I I can quote what to me is not even a high amount? You just have to run this risk, and you get someone laughing at you on the other end of things being like, are you kidding me?

You would charge you're gonna charge me that much to play music? I mean, my cousin will do it for $5 and Yeah. You know, and a plate of chicken tenders and, you know, that's that's ridiculous. I've gotten literally that line back at me. It's like, that's exorbitant and that's ridiculous.

So, I mean, but you call a plumber, my our example is always like, you call a plumber, they charge you what they charge and they they all charge the same basically. And you don't say, that's ridiculous. I mean, I guess some people say that, but, you know, I'm gonna fix it myself, which is fine. But the the it just contractors do charge what they charge Yeah. Across the board.

You know?

Well, I appreciate what you're doing in in helping just, first of all, being here, but then also just being willing to just push the envelope on that. Because I think overall, as artists, we need we need examples of how things can do it better. You know? One I mean, I just listened to the new Oliver Anthony podcast on Rogan, and that dude is resetting the market. And it's it's a great interview.

And now he's, like, got a vision of helping other artists do the same because he's he's proven that you can do things differently without the corporate structure and all those things with original music, and it's it's fantastic to watch it happen. And and it's inspiring to me to see, you know, on on that level with a song released with a cell phone recording that made $800,000 first check. Yeah. You know? I mean, that so there still is a path there.

You know? But, Nick, man, this has been awesome. Is there you know, a lot of times I'll ask people what or I guess what they would would advise they'd give a brand new musician, but I think I'd rather ask you something different.

Okay.

What advice would you give somebody that's been doing music for, let's say, ten, fifteen, twenty years and they just feel stuck in the same spot?

That's a good question. I to me, your mindset is everything. So it's not so much the songs you're playing. It's not so much the venue you're playing at. It is your mindset.

And if your mindset can change, then I think the output changes ultimately. You know, there's there's a lot of different ways to to make money playing music. There's a lot of different kinds of songs to play. I wouldn't judge anybody playing any kind of song to make money playing music. But you can't if you're in a if you're in a grind and you don't feel like you're breaking through, I do think that you can change your mindset to see this thing as an abundance, do practice gratitude, to to get connected relationally with your clients.

And I do think it changes how you even see what the job is or what the what the what the output is.

Mhmm.

So I mean, and that's that maybe is not super specific, but I think that's the best way. Yeah. Because you you can get I would also say try playing at different things. You've talked about this before, Chad. There's a lot of different ways to get like like, go to small towns.

If you live in a big city, we live in Kansas City. Go to small towns. Take go an hour circumference around Kansas City and go to their Facebook pages and go to their websites and start trying to get gigs because you're gonna find a completely different crowd who's probably very hungry for live music, most likely, likely, with a probably fine pay structure. And it'll change everything. You know, it'll change everything.

And if you're not going, I got to get this gig that all these cool guys have this one gig and I just can't get it and I feel stuck. You know, you just let your imagination run wild because there is live music, at least in Kansas City.

Yeah.

That's true in other cities too. But there is live music everywhere, like everywhere. And a lot of times they can't even fill the slots that they have budgeted. Because there's so much hunger for live entertainment. So use that flip your mindset, pick another kind of gig to try to get.

Marinas have music. They literally all the marinas at all the lakes around here have live music. So that could be fun. Know? Try try something different.

Don't just go, I gotta go to the coolest club. You know? Mahomes and Kelsey's steakhouse. Let's say they have I don't know if they have live music. But I gotta have it or else my career's, you know, in shambles.

Just just use your imagination.

Dude, thanks for your time, man. I appreciate it. This was so much good stuff.

Definitely. Thank you, Chad.

Alright, guys.

See you.

Nick Nave. Time to clean up my music business with some gig soap.